The #1 Shift That Turns Experts Into Speakers

Ange Dove (00:01)

So welcome to Your The Boss podcast show. And today I have a wonderful guest with me, Terry Fossum. So let me just tell you a little bit about Terry before we bring him on and talk today and give you some insights today that he's gonna bring for you. So he's a Survival Reality Show winner, number one Wall Street Journal, Amazon and Barnes and Noble spelling author.

And his TED talk, his TEDx talk, debuted at number two in the world, later recognized as one of the top 30 TEDx talks that made an impact this century. So, so you can tell I've got a great guest with me today for all of this. So he's highly successful keynote speaker, a philanthropist who's helped raise millions for charities across the country and in business. He reached the top fraction of 1 % of his industry worldwide.

He was named Los Angeles Magazine's Person of the Year for 2024 and Insight Success Magazine's Most Impactful and Visionary Personality to Watch in 2025. His award-winning book, The Simple Guide to Public Speaking Without Losing Your Lunch, has been praised by astronauts, beauty queens, executives, military leaders, and even adapted at the MBA level.

But today, Terry is known for something even more powerful with his TEDx talk crossed when his TEDx talk crossed a million views and completely transformed his life. Terry became obsessed with the simple overlooked truth. Most people aren't lacking talent. They're lacking a message that deserves a stage. And that's what we'll be talking about today. So that realization lit a fire in him. And today he's the founder of the World Class Speaker Program.

and the visionary speaker network. And Terry helps authors, experts and executives and movement builders clarify the one sentence they're truly here to say, and then turn that sentence into a speaking career, more impact and significantly more income. From TEDx to paid keynote to global stages, Terry teaches people how to stop talking and start being heard.

Ange Dove (02:25)

So Terry Fossum, welcome to the show.

Terry Fossum (02:29)

And thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it. And thanks so much for helping these folks that are just trying to build their business and get that traction that all of us, that stage all of us were at for so long. Really appreciate what you're doing to these folks.

Ange Dove (02:42)

Yeah, you're welcome. So I'm intrigued with that intro that we've just read. What's the story behind astronauts? I want to know that first.

Terry Fossum (02:55)

Well, mean, the fascinating thing about astronauts is, you know, they get selected, they go up in space, which is all amazing and quite a process. But then they are suddenly public figures, of course, you know, just like that. But they didn't start as public figures. You know, they start as mechanical engineers or fighter pilots or whatever. And when all of a sudden you're you're in demand, you're expected to get up there, you're expected to sound great.

Ange Dove (03:08)

Mm-hmm.

Terry Fossum (03:25)

They don't necessarily, in fact, many of them don't. Great people, you know, I know several of them and they're wonderful, dear people, more so than you think. But yeah, and they need help. So this book and my program has been a lot of help for them.

Ange Dove (03:27)

Yeah. Yeah.

Ange Dove (03:36)

Yeah.

Ange Dove (03:40)

Fantastic. So yeah, I mean, it raises the point of like, everyone can speak, but they can't really at the same time.

Terry Fossum (03:49)

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's one thing getting up there in front of the people, but it's another thing persuading a crowd to take action. And it's the action you want them to take. That's the important part. Don't just run your mouth. Don't just tell your story because it's a great, heart-wrenching story. That doesn't help the audience. It's waiting them to take the action you want them to take.

Ange Dove (04:00)

Mmm.

Ange Dove (04:07)

Hmm.

Ange Dove (04:15)

So, okay, so let's backtrack a little bit and just talk about if someone's running a business and they're just starting off or they're not getting the results that they want in terms of visibility and they're spending all their time on social media and it's like a full-time job, right? Just getting all those posts out on social media and just explain to me why speaking could be more worthwhile.

Avenue to go down.

Terry Fossum (04:46)

absolutely is. And the statistics are clear that it absolutely is. There's zero question. Posting gets you likes, speaking gets you clients and customers and investors. Bottom line. The statistics are absolutely clear on that. So all too often we waste our time chasing clients and we're posting media hoping somebody will look at that and go, I want to hire that person. Guess what? They're not going to do it.

30 seconds or whatever your clip is. You're just another talking head on their phone. That's all you are. On the other hand, and you're somebody who's trying to sell something, whatever it is. On the other hand, when they see you on the stage, suddenly you are elevated as the expert, especially if you do it right. And so therefore they want to learn from you. They see you in that position.

if they like what they hear because you positioned it correctly, and we can talk about that. Now they chase you. There's not many better feelings, than coming off the stage and there's a line of people that want to talk to you and hand you their business card. It's a lot better than handing yours out all day at a networking event and praying you get something.

Ange Dove (05:45)

Mm-hmm.

Ange Dove (05:56)

Right?

Ange Dove (06:02)

Yeah, that's such an important point is like building your personal brand so that people are chasing you, right, rather than you having to do the chasing. It's for sure much easier way to do business.

Terry Fossum (06:12)

Yeah, and all too often people misunderstand what your personal brand is. Your personal brand, everybody thinks it's who you are. No, no, everybody, listen, write this down right now. Your personal brand is not who you are. It's how you can help them overcome their challenges and reach their goals. That's your personal brand. Simple shift, critical shift.

Ange Dove (06:19)

Mm.

Terry Fossum (06:38)

right there. If you look at it like that, you're not the person who is, you're the person who can.

Ange Dove (06:44)

Right. So it's kind of coming at it from a service point of view. You're serving them through your expertise, making their life better.

Terry Fossum (06:53)

Well, don't pay for you to be awesome. They pay for you to help them be awesome.

Ange Dove (07:00)

Yeah, nice, nice, nice, nice. So let's just talk a little bit about you mentioned the message and getting the message right. So I think this is this is one of the hardest things to actually, you know, is what I say is, can you answer the simplest question you'll ever be asked? What do you do? And it's such a hard question to actually answer.

Terry Fossum (07:21)

All right.

Ange Dove (07:25)

with clarity and to get people to actually say, yeah, tell me more. want to work with you. So what would you advise people in terms of creating that message?

Terry Fossum (07:36)

Absolutely, and that's the first thing I do with people myself is we've got to get that foundation. All too often entrepreneurs, especially early stage entrepreneurs, we have all of these ideas. know, our ADHD is everywhere. You know, I can do this, I can talk about this, and I can do this too. Guess what else I can do? You all those things. Okay, so I take it to the bottom line. And, you know, I know we all want to help people. I get that. Okay, that's cool.

Ange Dove (07:51)

Yep.

Ange Dove (08:05)

Mm.

Terry Fossum (08:05)

My bottom line is what's going to make you the most money? Okay? What's going to make you the most money? And I'm not interested in helping you make tens of dollars or hundreds of dollars or even thousands of dollars. Let's start at tens of thousands of dollars, go into hundreds of thousand and take it from there. So bottom line out of all your ideas, we need to research deeply. What's the demand? What's the demand willing to pay for that? Let's analyze all your ideas.

Ange Dove (08:14)

Alright.

Ange Dove (08:29)

Mm-hmm.

Terry Fossum (08:34)

Come up with the one that's gonna make you the most money. Now, in so doing, you're gonna help the most people. It's symbiotic. It's the way that it works out there. You're making the most money, that means you are helping the most people. Now, if on the other hand, you just wanna help people and not make money, fantastic. I'm not the guy to work with, probably. A lot of other people are. I wanna help you help yourself. You can't help the poor like the remaining poor.

Ange Dove (08:45)

Right.

Ange Dove (08:49)

Mm-hmm.

Ange Dove (08:56)

you

Terry Fossum (09:04)

You help the poor by becoming rich and being able to really make a difference.

Ange Dove (09:10)

Nice, I love that. So then, so how do you take people through then in terms of creating that message? once they establish, this is what I want to be known for, right? This is how I'm going to help the most people. How does that message come through?

Terry Fossum (09:29)

Okay, now we use that foundation to build everything else from there. And again, with my program at thestageadvantage.com, we start with, if you don't have a book, you're gonna have a book. Now, like you and I were talking before we started filming here, I've been working with AI nonstop for about two and a half years. I've got a chat GBT and I know, at actually a future of humanity level, I'm a mechanical engineer, I'm a geek by nature.

Ange Dove (09:50)

Okay.

Ange Dove (09:57)

Right.

Terry Fossum (09:58)

So I have built what is literally the strongest AI program in existence, in my opinion, I'd say in my opinion, but I absolutely believe that, I wouldn't be here because I don't have to do any of this. And the first thing we're going do is we're going to research everything out there and build everything on your foundation, starting with the book. you extremely, extremely powerful AI, not just to build a book off your message,

Ange Dove (10:08)

Yeah. Right.

Terry Fossum (10:25)

but a book with the specific strategy involved to make every reader go, I want to hire them. That's your goal for the book. It's not to teach people. It's to make them want to hire you.

Ange Dove (10:32)

Okay.

Ange Dove (10:36)

Yeah. Hi, A. Yeah. So this platform, this AI platform then is something that they would subscribe to, I guess, or then log in and be able to go through the processes of building what you're teaching them to do. Is that right?

Terry Fossum (10:53)

Well, kind of. With the VIP program that I've built, where they have access to those, I've got a different program, a foundational program, where they have access to the first one that narrows everything down to how they make money, and then give them access to all of my videos all the way through Ted X's paid speaking podcast, the whole bit. For the VIP program, they're actually working directly with me and VAIs. So it's hand in hand.

Ange Dove (11:14)

Okay.

Ange Dove (11:17)

Mm. Mm.

Terry Fossum (11:21)

Work with somebody who's been there and done that, you know

Ange Dove (11:25)

And then with AI as well, just makes it so much quicker. Yeah. It's just amazing. It's amazing. right. Okay. So once they've got that message out there, they're getting a book that helps that next stage. Right? And then how do they then get onto stages?

Terry Fossum (11:28)

Yeah, okay.

Terry Fossum (11:46)

The next step is let's get you booked for TEDx. TEDx is the largest stage in the world, instant credibility. You're now the author of that helps you in getting that TEDx stage. Obviously with my very blessed success, credit where credit's due, in the TEDx world, we know how to get you onto those stages and we know how to be the most effective. So now you've got, you're on the world's biggest stage. You also have

Ange Dove (11:49)

Yeah.

Right.

Terry Fossum (12:15.)

really good footage for your speaker reel. So those things build up together. From there, again, yet another AI foundation where we go, okay, let's take that message, which industries need your message? How do we craft it very, very, very specifically? And there's a lot of strategy involved to where you are now a 20,000, 35,000, whatever keynote and

Ange Dove (12:18)

Bye.

Ange Dove (12:44)

Mm.

Terry Fossum (12:44)

we're going to write you with the AIs and myself a keynote that is a 35K keynote, not a $500 keynote. And again, the keynote, the paid speaking isn't the goal yet. The goal is the bigger money where you get the clients from the speaking. If you get paid several thousand dollars an hour, it doesn't stink.

Ange Dove (12:51)

Mm. Nice.

Ange Dove (13:05)

Yeah, for sure.

Terry Fossum (13:07)

So now I've got another AI that takes that and actually searches for the venues out there that are looking for a speaker like you. I've got another one. And again, these are not just chat GPT. These are highly trained. They will write your outreach materials for you. It'll write your one sheet for you. Really nice looking, very professional in the way that will catch the speaker venues attention and get you hired. This is all, and again, it's all,

35,000, that's why I key everything for it, $35,000 keynote. So it's at that level and what those venues are looking for. Now, if you use it to get a $5,000 keynote to begin with, fantastic, you'll get what you're at, right? So that's in a nutshell.

Ange Dove (13:54)

So how long would it take someone to get up to that level of being able to command $30,000 to do a keynote? Is it, it? Yeah. Yeah, go ahead. No, go ahead.

Terry Fossum (14:02)

You bet. go ahead. OK, I hate to give vague answers, but I have to in this case. But then I'll get more specific. It really depends on the person, right? If my wife laughs at me for many things, but one of them is, Terry, people don't work at your speed. You've got to understand that, you know, in anything I do like understand, don't get pressed. People look at your speed.

Ange Dove (14:27)

Yeah.

Terry Fossum (14:29)

But if you do work at my speed, I'm there for you. We're going to do this very quickly. But if you don't, I work at your speed. You you've got a job, you've got a business, you've got kids, whatever you've got going on. I get that. We'll work at your speed. But we can have that foundation done within the first week max. If you want to jump in, we can have your book done within the first two weeks. We can have your TEDx applications going out at the same time.

Ange Dove (14:39)

Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Terry Fossum (14:58)

We can go right through that. TEDx process takes a while, depending on, I'm very blessed to have pretty good contacts out there. But it can take months. We don't stop. We also get you on the podcast circuit. But in a way, it's going you ROI. It's going to get you clients. And then, okay, let's start building up those speaking materials. Speaker Reel, One Sheet, all of that. And let's start reaching out, even if it's small to begin with.

Ange Dove (15:03)

Yeah.

Ange Dove (15:13)

Mm.

Terry Fossum (15:27)

to practice your speech just like Jay Leno goes to the small comedy clubs, right? To get you going to the smaller ones to begin with and break it in, get old footage and then start building, building, building from there. The nice thing is again, you're gonna be going out with materials that position you at that level. And I wanna say just one last thing, I'll turn it back over to you, I hate to ramble, but how do you know whether you're a $500,

Ange Dove (15:38)

Mm. Mm.

Terry Fossum (15:56)

per hour speaker or a $20,000 per hour speaker. I'd heard this and I didn't believe it, Ange, until I tried it. What I heard was, when you decide you are, here's the deal. I didn't believe it. Now, odds are you've got pretty good material. It needs to be refined, but it's pretty good. And the first time somebody asked me, what's your speaker fee? And I said, $20,000.

Ange Dove (16:08)

Ooh, okay.

Terry Fossum (16:24)

I've never gotten paid that much in my life. Now, I had, again, I had a great idea. I had a book, et cetera, et cetera. And they, well, we'll need to talk to our board of directors. I'm like, okay, yep, you should do that. And then we talked to their board of directors and the guy, the president of the board goes, wow, he hit a home run, $20,000. There it is. Can it be that simple? Yes, it really can. But you've got the right to do so.

Ange Dove (16:47)

Alright, okay.

Okay. So it's pitching it right, but then also, I guess, putting in the hours like you mentioned about starting in smaller places, getting those reps in, I think, to be able to present what it is you're presenting in a way that's credible, right?

Terry Fossum (17:12)

Well, absolutely. And of course, depending on the individual and their background in speaking, know, an astronaut is going to be going for those higher dollars more quickly than somebody that doesn't have credentials like that. But don't limit yourself, whatever you do. The market is looking for you and your idea once we refine it. It's looking for you.

Ange Dove (17:27)

Mm.

Ange Dove (17:32)

Right, okay, all right, nice, I like that. So what happens then if someone goes out to speak and they bomb, right?

Terry Fossum (17:44)

Welcome to the club. That's what happens. No, but what's fun first of all, we're going to position you in a way and I don't want to just say we, I don't want to just tell my program, but you can position yourself in a way that you're not going to bomb. Now within my trainings, I give you all the, do you get their attention? The second you walk on stage, cause you have to, or they're to be checking their email on their phone, right? So let me give you your audience some,

Ange Dove (17:56.12)

Yeah. Yeah.

Ange Dove (18:10)

Mm-mm.

Terry Fossum (18:14)

points right here and then we'll talk about what happens when you bomb. Number one, within the first six seconds, you have to tell the audience why they care. Again, it's not about you, it's not about your sad story, it's not about how great you are, it's not about any of that. It's about their pain, their pain, and you understand their pain. Wow, wait, they understand my pain. I need to listen to them.

Ange Dove (18:15)

Right.

Ange Dove (18:35)

You're right.

Terry Fossum (18:42)

There you go. Now you've got them. you hit their...

Emotion, not fact, is the driver of all action. Emotion, not fact. So you've got to make them feel why they need to listen to you. When you do, man, now you own them. And again, a speech needs to be structured a very certain way. There's ways to get over your fear of public speaking. If it's not about you, it's about the audience. It's about them that helps. I've got a lot of other techniques we use. I think some of that stuff's on my social media in different places.

But the bottom line is I have come off stages and I'm dying up there, Ange. I'm dying. I'm giving them everything I got. And I'm kind of, you might have noticed, I'm kind of excitable, right? And I'm going at it. I'm getting nothing from the audience. I'm getting nothing. I'm sweating, literally. I'm out of breath. My voice is gone. I get done with my speech like, geez, just let me walk off this stage.

Ange Dove (19:30)

Mm-hmm.

Terry Fossum (19:47)

and they jump up on their feet and give me a standing ovation. Are you kidding me? Or if they don't, I walk off stage and there's a line of people. That was amazing. I felt like you were talking right to me. Like, were you? You know what? It's going to happen. Failure is the path to success.

Ange Dove (20:03)

I've had someone else tell me exactly the same thing. The first time they came to Malaysia and did a talk in Malaysia and obviously the audience is a bit calmer. Usually they're not so demonstrative. So he thought he'd bombed. He thought, my God, they're not listening to me. They hate me. They got no reaction at all. Everyone was sitting like this and no reaction. And he just thought, that's it.

Terry Fossum (20:07)

Yeah.

Terry Fossum (20:28)

Yeah, yeah.

Ange Dove (20:32)

can't do this, and he walked off stage. And same thing, they queued around the auditorium to wait to speak to him. So you can't tell. So the lesson there is don't be put off by the faces you see in front of you. You can't tell a book by its cover.

Terry Fossum (20:38.881)

Yeah!

Terry Fossum (20:48)

Yeah!

It's absolutely true. And you can't judge an audience by their reaction all the time. And you certainly can't judge your message by their reaction all the time. And I think the point is, don't be in it for that. Don't be in it for that standing ovation. That's not what it's about. Again, quite frankly, we're talking business here, right? We're talking business, okay? You're in it to get clients out of the deal. You're not in it to get paid.

Ange Dove (20:56)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Ange Dove (21:01)

Bye.

Ange Dove (21:06)

Mm.

Ange Dove (21:10)

Yeah.

Terry Fossum (21:21)

20,000 and have them go, that was amazing and never hear from them again. You're in it. At the end, they go, we need to hire them back. We need to get them to talk to our board. We need seminars. We want him to be our coach the whole bit. That's how you construct your speech.

Ange Dove (21:25)

Mm.

Ange Dove (21:33)

Right.

Yeah. And I think it's interesting what you said just a little bit earlier there about it's kind of your perspective, the way you look at things changes things, right? So if you're looking at it from it's not about you, because I think that's where a lot of the fear of public speaking comes from is that you're thinking it's about you. And I was terrible for that in the past. I was my God. Like if I had to go on video.

Terry Fossum (22:02)

Hmm.

Ange Dove (22:03)

and record something on video, it would take me the whole day.

Terry Fossum (22:08)

Bye.

Ange Dove (22:10)

It was terrible. But a coach then once said to me, and it's not about you. And that was really a light bulb moment for me. You could literally see the light bulb go off. And it was like that just that just shifted my perspective completely. Right. I don't have to bother about putting my makeup on looking great because they're not there to see that. Right. They're there to learn something. Right.

Terry Fossum (22:36)

That's a lot of it right there. And in the training, one of things I love most is helping people not just get over their fear of public speaking, but become the most powerful they've ever been in their life the second they walk on that stage. So they are undeniable baby, right? And I love doing that. And that's part of the whole program.

Ange Dove (22:53)

Yeah. Yeah.

Ange Dove (22:57)

I love that, I love that, I love that. So you mentioned it's very business focused in terms of you're there for a reason, you're there to get business and that's the way you should be looking at it, right?

Terry Fossum (23:14)

without letting the audience know that's what you're doing. And that's a, you know, it's not a sales pitch. cannot be a sales pitch. They're not paying you tens of thousands of dollars an hour to pitch them on something, right? No, but it's being able to do that in a way where they get so much value out of it, so much value. And they're going, I want more. I want more from him or her. That's the deal.

Ange Dove (23:31)

Mm.

Right. Yeah. OK. So you mentioned another question I have actually is, do you just do one presentation, one subject, and you just cover just that one subject? Or do you have a few lined up for different audiences?

Terry Fossum (23:56)

You have one thing that you are known for, one transformation. If an event planner goes to your speaker page and goes, oh, they talk on this and they talk on, and this was one of my challenges in the past. I'm not that cool. All right. It took me many years and a lot of work figuring this out. They look at that and go, they're not our person. They're not our person. need the person who can. And Ang is the person who helps us, bam.

Ange Dove (24:01)

Right.

Ange Dove (24:13)

Nice.

Right.

Ange Dove (24:25.988)

Bye.

Terry Fossum (24:26)

That's the deal. Not everything and not everybody.

Ange Dove (24:30)

Well I think a lot of people are very happy to hear that, because that means you only have to prepare one.

Terry Fossum (24:35)

Thank

Terry Fossum (24:38)

Yeah, that's true. You cater it for the audience, know, for the business, for the industry, whatever, but yes, one, you're right.

Ange Dove (24:45)

Okay. So you have your one core message, your one core presentation, but you can tweak it for the audience that you're going for, but you're basically saying the same thing over and over again at each event, right?

Terry Fossum (25:04)

Yeah, absolutely. Now you and we help people actually expand that out. Now they've hired you for a half day. You got booked for one hour. They've hired you for half day seminar, right? Not a problem. We've just built out the concepts even more and make it interactive and all of that. But it's still for that one thing.

Ange Dove (25:12)

Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm.

Yes.

Ange Dove (25:24)

Yes, yeah. So I think I've heard this elsewhere as well, that you have your talk and whether someone says to you, you've got half an hour or you've got half a day or a whole day, you're able to take that and straight away be able to deliver within that time frame. Right. I had a one speaker saying to me one time they were booked for, I think, a 90 minute talk.

Terry Fossum (25:44)

Yeah.

Ange Dove (25:50)

And something went wrong on the day and all the timings got all messed up and they turned around to him and said, okay, I'm sorry, but you've only got 30 minutes. Can you do it in So he just went, yeah, I'm okay. I can do it because he had it prepared to he could deliver it in 30 minutes. He could deliver it in 90. Right. just

Terry Fossum (25:59)

wow, wow, yeah.

Terry Fossum (26:11)

And that happens, you have to be prepared for that, that happens. Or the other way around, know, what our Simrar leader, something they couldn't catch their flight and therefore you're on.

Ange Dove (26:23)

For a long time.

Terry Fossum (26:25)

When you bring out the other contract with the other dollar amount.

Ange Dove (26:32)

I like that, I like that, I like that. So just tell me now, is there something that we haven't talked about today in this topic of becoming a speaker to build your business? Is there anything else that you can offer the listeners?

Terry Fossum (26:50)

I think all too often people don't want to step out of their comfort zone, of course, and they want to hide behind the camera. They want to hide behind social media. They want to hide behind posting because they're afraid. They're afraid of getting out there. You know what? Here's the deal. If you truly believe in your product, whatever that product is, since we're talking business, if you truly believe in your service, you truly believe in how you can help people, then you need to allow yourself to be elevated to

Ange Dove (26:55)

Mm-hmm.

Terry Fossum (27:20)

be the expert in that area. If you are a plumber and think, I can't get up on that stage and talk about plumbing. Yes, you can. You position yourself as the industry expert in plumbing, whatever that looks like. And then people go, wow, and you're the one who teaches other plumbers or that teaches society or whatever it might be. But you've got to get out from behind that desk, that camera, that computer and get out there and

Ange Dove (27:36)

Mm.

Ange Dove (27:43)

Mm.

Terry Fossum (27:50)

When you're out there, that's when people truly see you and feel you, and that's when they want to learn more from you and pay you to do it.

Ange Dove (28:00)

Right. You're not going to succeed in that if you're hidden. Right. You have to be out there and show yourself. And it can be done. Right. It definitely can be done if you've got no experience in public speaking, if you have a fear of public speaking. Really is. It's like if you know your topic, if you know what you're talking about, you should be able to do it. Right. It's just getting.

Terry Fossum (28:23)

Well, yes, absolutely. And part of the beautiful thing about what we've put together is even if you don't, you're like, you're a plumber, like I, I'm not an industry expert. Guess what? We can make you one, right? We can do the research. We can pull in the studies. We can pull in the everything and make you one. So if you're thinking, stop limiting yourself there. That's my big message.

Ange Dove (28:42)

Yeah. Right.

Ange Dove (28:49)

Nice, nice. I love that. I love that. And I think as well, I think it's so comforting to hear, because I think this is like we talked about at the top of the talk as well, people try to make things too complicated, they're trying to do too much. And if you just narrow it down to that one thing, and become known for that one thing, then it's just going to make your business so much simpler to run and in your life, you're not stressing yourself out trying to be

you know, too thin here, there, and everywhere. You just focus on that one thing, and it's just rinse and repeat, right? Just do it again and again and again.

Terry Fossum (29:23)

Yeah, absolutely. I'm honest with people. I'm honest with people. I talk to them. if I don't think what they, you they're really want this, this is the one. I'm honest with people. Never harsh, never mean, but I'm always very upfront. I always shoot straight as we say in Texas. And I really do. You know, if it's not a good idea, I will tell you, you know, but if it is, I will tell you.

Ange Dove (29:39)

Right.

Ange Dove (29:44)

Right.

Right, so you can recognise what would be successful for them to pursue. terms of like, okay. Nice. Okay, so just to close off, it's been lovely speaking to you today. Where can people go to find more information? And if they want to then pursue getting into the public space and having you train them, where can we send them to?

Terry Fossum (29:52)

Yeah, not my first rodeo as we also say in tech.

Terry Fossum (30:17)

Yeah, absolutely. You can learn lots at thestageadvantage.com. Thestageadvantage.com. Go there, check out everything. You can learn about my program and all of that, of course. And then follow me on social media. I don't post as much as a lot of people because we're all doing this, baby. But yeah, feel free.

Ange Dove (30:41)

Okay, so I'll put the link wherever people are listening to or watching this podcast and you'll be able to go straight to the link there and check out everything that Terry has to offer and you will be learning from the best. So really, really loved having you on the show today, Terry. So thank you so much.

Terry Fossum (31:02)

Well, and Ash, thank you again for helping these folks that are just trying to find their way in business. I'll say one last thing for you, everybody listening in business, I struggled, I struggled, I struggled, I cried, I struggled, I struggled, but I kept going. You can too, you got it.

Ange Dove (31:22)

Yeah. Yeah. You hear so many times the, I read something this yesterday, something along the lines of, it was about podcasting actually. It someone was talking about podcasting and they said they gave up their podcast just at that point where they were getting listeners. If they'd have continued, they would have, you know, you tend to give up too soon. And if you just be persistent, you just keep going.

Terry Fossum (31:41)

Mm, mm.

Ange Dove (31:50)

it's all gonna work out it's all gonna work out that's what i believe anyway okay so terry thank you so much

Terry Fossum (31:59)

Alright, thank you, Ange. Go out there and go get them.

Ange Dove (32:01)

Yeah.