How to leave the corporate life and live an awesome third act from anywhere

Ange Dove (00:04.238)

Welcome to the Build a Purposeful Profitable Business Doing What You Absolutely Love podcast, posted weekly by me and Dove, your work from anywhere coach, professional copywriter, published author, and business owner of 20 years. In every episode, I will deliver useful insights to help you find your voice, position your value, demystify the marketing tech, and run your business on your terms. So come on in.

Ange Dove (00:42.08)

OK, welcome to this week's episode. And I'm really excited today to have my guest, Ken Stearns on today, Ken, welcome. Good morning, Angie.

Good morning. Good morning. So we're understanding that the sun is yet to rise where you are, but by the time we finish this podcast, it will be broad daylight. So we'll watch for the sun rising as you're talking. We're early birding this show. That's fantastic. So Ken, can you just introduce yourself to everyone and just explain what you're about?

Ken Stearns (01:17.262)

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm a US citizen. was born in the US in Chicago and ended up in Los Angeles after school. And I had this kind of freaky insurance vertical sales experience, Angie. And I answered the call, this advertisement to end up in Asia selling insurance, building insurance for companies. And maybe like yourself. Not quite sure how you ended up in Asia, but I answered that call for a couple of years to come for a couple of your contract. And I found myself still there 20 years later. That's my story.

20 years later, I was like, I gotta get back. I have something to do. So I was I was really trying to to find what I was going to do for the rest of my life. You know, when I grew up, what am I going to when you grow up? What are you going to do? And I had a lot of different things all happening at the same time to try to to get something to happen to show me where to go. I didn't want to sign that last contract with with corporate. Right. I was kind of done with corporate and really tough, tough business. was a tough business, a great business, the insurance business, but mentally tough. And I wanted to find something to do for myself, do something for the next, my third act. What am I gonna do in my third act? And I was writing a book, I was playing guitar, I was trying to become a speaker. And somehow I kind of ended up with this crazy idea to do a podcast.

Ken Stearns (02:55.914)

and to do a different format than a lot of podcasts, I was going to do it in person, but also I was going to do it in people's homes and travel to different cities. So I came up with an idea called the Jar podcast and it's I've got, I created from the book I wrote, created 444 questions, cram them into this jar and I'm driving around the country to 111 cities ultimately.

Right.

Ken Stearns(03:23.822)

and interviewing four hundred and forty four people and hang on

Ken Stearns (03:33.378)

You have the jar so you can. That's what I guess. That's what I guess he's for an hour and a half is this is intimidating jar full of questions.

Okay, so for those listening, Ken's just shown this great big huge glass jar full of 444 questions, right?

And that's what I'm doing right now. I'm on about halfway through. I've done about 200 interviews since April and I've been to 60 cities. I'm just having a blast meeting people and hearing their stories, remarkable stories.

That wonderful. So that's a great excuse to travel. way to do it. So this whole idea of working from anywhere, right, is what you're basically doing now. just got that freedom lifestyle where you're not based in one place, you're just traveling around. Traveling around. It's a yeah, it's fantastic. And also, you know, also, I think mind boggling to it. I'm changing hotels every four days. I don't have I don't have a home. Everything I need. Not everything I own or want, but everything I need is in a couple of suitcases and my van. I have this Jag. Of course, I've got a Jag Norma's van. I don't sleep in the van. Because that would just be madness.

Ange Dove (04:27.202)

fantastic.

Ken Stearns (04:53.678)

I'm not that good. I'm not that much of a maniac. But I use it for, it's for marketing and carry everything around.

Fantastic. So I'm interested in knowing just for the first part of your story here is, obviously you worked in corporate and you worked in corporate in insurance for a long, long time, right? And now you've recently made this transition over to this completely different lifestyle. So just so let us know, what was that like? How did you do it? How did you feel?

How do you know if anyone listening that's thinking of leaving the nine to five and starting something new and you know wanting that freedom to work from anywhere what would you advise and what happened to you?

Yeah, it's it's, think mine was, it was a long journey. was, I was really focused on solving the puzzle of what I wanted to do for a longer period of time. So what, you know, what can I do till I'm 80? So I think, you know, cause I want to find, I think I want to be an active person. I don't want to just sit at home. And I had a job where I needed to be doing that work. So how can I repurpose my life?

experience and everything to something I can do for a longer period of time. You can do it when you're older and you don't need a corporate maybe. So I was pretty intentional. There was a lot of thought going into what experience or skills I thought I had. And I think for anybody listening, you've got a passion. if you've found your pay, if you're lucky enough to found your passion, I think that's the best alignment is to find some way, what is that career in your

Ken Stearns (06:39.222)

and the area of your passion, what really wakes you up and gets you excited? What is that? And what work is involved in there and can you monetize it? And then being very intentional about doing things, maybe not directly, because I wanted to be a public speaker, but I was, you know, I wrote, so I wrote a book, but I wasn't sure where it would lead. Honestly, I knew that was one of the things I needed to do. Just write a book.

And what? So the book was called Dear, it's called Dear God, and it's letters, it's letters to God about heavy life topics. It's not a it wasn't a religious book. It was more my own spiritual kind of conflagration. don't know if that's the right word or not. But there's all these things, all my spiritual experience coming together and being 50 something right and being raised, you know, Catholic.

book about.

Ken Stearns (07:38.094)

but being exposed to the Muslim faith, living in Indonesia, Thailand, being exposed to Buddhism, living in India, being exposed to Hinduism. So I believed in everything and nothing spiritually. didn't know what to I was so confused. So I wrote all these letters and they're just 12 topics. it's kind of this inner part, the inner circle is yourself.

And that's your yesterdays, your todays, your tomorrows. I call it the battlefield of your mind. then the outer, the next circle out is between two people. And this was, call this the book of others. And that's about acceptance, forgiveness, and compassion. Really good skills, interpersonal skills, you know, something I think, you know, we could all benefit by carrying around.

Okay.

Ange Dove (08:18.104)

Okay.

Ken Stearns (08:35.118)

And then the book of all kind of one more circle out was is let's see if I can remember it. It's Karma, Service and Love. So great thing for humanity. This is kind of the next it's a humanity level. And then the last one was the book of you. And that was kind of, you know, the creator or or intelligent design. If you believe in that, then then there's that third

Okay.

Ken Stearns (09:04.802)

this fourth part, which is faith, know, hope and, and mindfulness and how we look at life. So it was a book about that. And I turned that book, the letters into the questions.

Okay.

So unintentional. And so I think for listeners, if you're, you know, you're contemplating what you want to do, most of us have an idea of what we'd like to do. And it's the idea. I think what we'd benefit is doing more than one thing in the same area. Like, so I call it, you know, kind in their own lane, but they're relatively in the same direction. So if it's creative, you want to go on a

Ken Stearns(09:47.264)

And somehow the ones that are supposed to link up will link up for you. And the other ones will just kind of, you they'll just fade away. And so I was very, very lucky that a few accidental and I'd say accidental, but intentional things came together.

Yeah.

Ange Dove (09:55.128)

Right.

Ange Dove (10:04.776)

Mm. Okay.

That's the best advice. We talked about that earlier. You have to be very intentional.

Right. OK, so you need to, yeah, a plan to kind of know a little bit where you're going and what you want to achieve with it. Yeah. But I was just one just as you were speaking there, just a question that just came to mind was like you mentioned that the four hundred and forty four questions came from the book. the book you wrote yourself based on your own personal experiences. Yeah. Right. Well, doing your whole life. Right.

And then you start asking these questions in your podcast to other people. What's that been like in terms of getting information back from them? And has it been enlightening? it been have they had similar experiences? It been completely different? Has it opened your mind to other things?

Yes.

Ken Stearns (10:57.368)

Yeah, a few things have happened. One of the most surprising initially for me was I had, of course, I wrote the questions and I had a specific place I was sitting writing the question mentally. know, mentally I was writing it from a certain place. And the part that surprised me was people had their own interpretation of the question. Now I can understand they'd have their own answer.

If we all had the same question and understood the question to be the same thing, we'd all have different answers. I understood that. But what happened was people had their own interpretation. Before we even got to the part where they would based on their experience, they already changed it. I was like, oh my God, you're like, this is crazy. There's a million questions in here.

and

Ange Dove (11:48.13)

Yeah, interesting. It's kind of like songs, right? When people listen to songs, they put their own interpretation on them. might be completely different from what the songwriter intended, very, very much so. So that's been interesting. And one of the I'd say a bit of the magic of the show that I also didn't appreciate the structure was the ability for people to tell their story through the interaction with the jar. So it's a very interesting outcome is as they pull these because these are life questions about acceptance, forgiveness, compassion, love. And of course, this brings out their life story comes out. Even though we're not doing a traditional kind of a tell me your life story and it can some kind of sequential order and it's it's it comes through in these kind of snippet stories and very powerful, quite often very powerful parts of the life.

Nice. We'll give listeners a link to your podcast, I think afterwards. So I'm very intrigued to listen to that as well. It's a lot of fun. Yeah. Okay, so then just going back to again, if the listeners are wondering, should I take this leap? Right? it. I agree wholeheartedly for obvious reasons. But why? Why should they do it? What's the reason for you?

Quick.

Ken Stearns(13:19.046)

I think it is that the, the one we, we all repeat, you know, over and over, which is, the first one, which is you'll regret if you never did it, right. You're going to regret it. but I think put that aside cause that's a negative kind of a incentive. It's a negative incentive, right? It's a negative incentive. If you don't, know, this, you'll regret it. And I don't think that's the right approach. I think it's because I,

Yeah.

Ken Stearns(13:45.866)

I'm happy I did it because it's changed who I am. It's allowed me to become who I am, who I'm supposed to be.

nice i love that
So it's allowed me to really become who I am and grow in that lane.

Okay. So it's no, you can take the mask off in a way and.

Yeah, you can take the mask off. You can put on your own hat. And you don't have to wear the corporate hat. You don't have to drink the Kool-Aid. Because you have to drink the Kool-Aid to go to work because you got to get excited about the company and the mission and the vision and we're changing the world. And you have to drink that Kool-Aid. I totally appreciate it. I drank that Kool-Aid. I mixed it. I pulled it out of the pack. I stirred it up with water. I passed it around the glasses. We all drank it. It was great. And you need to do that.

Ken Stearns (14:36.972)

because you're in a job and it's hard and you got to get up, you got to get motivated to go to work. And you are in a lot of cases doing good things. know, you are in a lot of cases doing good things. You're drinking the Kool-Aid, but it's a good Kool-Aid and it's a truthful Kool-Aid. It's okay. But at some point you have to do something for yourself and you have to take care of yourself because otherwise that will eat away. Eat away at you.

And the opportunity to become who you are and to find yourself through being on your own in this life, there's nothing like it. This is the best way to go, Ange. I don't want to say I hate myself for waiting these number of years. I did it when the time was right for me.

Yeah, yeah, and you only can, right? You can only do what's right for you.

You can only do it right. And look, I did it at 60. So, I mean, if you're listening and you're 40, you don't have to leave tomorrow. Right. You can plan and you can, you know, the great about today, you, you can start a podcast tonight. Three for free. So you can, you can do anything you want to do. Uh, and these days a great time to be alive. can tell all of it. You can test all of it. I had this, um, you know, the

Yeah, technology is there, right?

Ken Stearns (15:55.278)

talking about taking care of yourself and doing something, you know, maybe that's also partly people don't do it because they're taking care of other people and not putting themselves first. I, I was a young, starving insurance guy. I might not even have been insurance. I was, I was just in my insurance job and I was in LA broke as hell. Just bought a house. had no money. I went to buy a barbecue in the heart, in the heart of the, in the heart of the city, the Southern part of the city.

Right.

Ken Stearns (16:25.062)

and there was this black gentleman that had set up a barbecue sales place in his house his backyard and he was using oil drums these old oil drums he'd take an oil drum and he'd saw it in half and he'd put a hinge on it and a grill

You're selling them! Okay.

And, uh, recycled. was really early. He was early recycler. He was very green. It was very green. And I went there and I was going to buy barbecues $40. And then he had another one with wheels and the wheel. And I said, Oh, how much of those it's $20. I said, Oh man, I read the wheels. probably need the wheels. I said, he said, son, you know, you know, he's not $20.

Yeah.

Ken Stearns (17:11.63)

You're to go home and you're going to put $10 of gas in the tank and you're to go home and your daughter's going to ask you for $5. Your wife's going to ask you for $5 and you going to have that $20 anymore. And you won't ever remember that 20. But if you buy those wheels, every time you look at those wheels, you are going to remember those are my wheels. You have got to be good to yourself.

Ha ha ha!

Ange Dove (17:38.84)

Nice, he's a good salesman.

one of the best sales people I've ever met. good. So I think the message was be good to yourself because no one else, no one else is looking out for you. Everybody else, know, and, so in that corporate life, you know, there's only one person really batting for you. And I think you look at HR, you look at your boss, you look at, you know, compliance, you look at the other components to it.

huh.

Ken Stearns (18:07.426)

people that want to kill you in the company for no apparent reason, other than that's what they'd like to do. So you've got politics, you've got human resources, which is a land, you never know when you're to step on something funny over there. You got your boss, your boss's boss. It's complicated place to live.

ask permission if you want to do something.

You have to ask permission. Even if you have a brilliant idea, you could give it to your boss who's an idiot and it's going to go nowhere. Or you could give it to your boss and he's, they're an idiot and they're going to ruin it. So that creativity, think the one thing too, Angie, that I found was I was in one job that was so suffocating. So, such an intense job that all my creativity, everything that I could do for myself or Ken Stearns was put on, was drained every day. There was nothing left at the end of the day.

Right.

I couldn't really do anything. I couldn't come home and write or do anything creative. My creativity was for strategy decks.

Ange Dove (19:10.958)

Bye.

So yeah, you we yeah, you know what it's like being in these companies. It's it's tough at the end of the day You're fraught your brains done and there's no room left for Angie and so, you know back to the said the barbecue guy we have to you got to be good to yourself and You know find You'll find those opportunities where you don't kill yourself at least If you can and and that's one of the ways to slowly get out that made a difference for me changing jobs

Yeah.

Ken Stearns (19:41.39)

into a job that was pretty much a dumb job. My creativity sparked up again. It was there, it bubbled up because I wasn't doing corporate stuff. Then I found it was beginning of finding me.

Okay.

Ange Dove(19:54.476)

you.

Yeah, that is really good. And I think as well, when you're in a job working for a company working for others as well, know, one's indispensable, even though you think you might be. You're not right. Nobody's indispensable. You'd be gone. Nobody would know what you think about you a week later. It's like goes on, right. The company goes on.

Absolutely. machinery just keeps moving. This is one thing too. If you're sitting there and you're thinking you're in a, you know, the company needs you. I can't leave my team. Yeah. I'm the only one that knows how to do this job. Bollocks. You know, it's all bollocks. It's all in your head. And it's, it's in a

Yeah.

Ken Stearns (20:46.58)

It's a coping mechanism in a way though, because you have to have some conversation with yourself to wake up every day and you to go to work. So there is a bit of the cope. think it's okay to have that as a coping mechanism for a while. As long as you know it's the coping mechanism. You have to look at yourself sometimes in the mirror and say, if I'm dead tomorrow, no one's going to care in a week.

So you might as well do what you want to do. And then as you said, like today, the technology is there to be able to start your own business, work from anywhere, do your own thing. You've got complete freedom to do that. There's nothing, there's no excuse not to do it actually, except for yourself. So you've just got to take that leap.

Do what you want to do, right?

Ken Stearns (21:36.11)

You just take the leap. And I'm a big fan of momentum. And I think, you know, I said I had these little different kind of channels with a little bit of, know, just blowing enough air behind them to keep them moving. you know, you just start, right? Yeah. Just start like, like we, were, Angie and I talked about two days ago and we talked about the platform that we're streaming this on and recording it on. We talked about an AI channel. We're a couple of old birds.

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Ken Stearns (22:04.294)

And, you know, next thing you know, I've got a, I'm doing AI video editing. So I've learned how to AI video edit. I'm going to learn how to use a stream cast. I'm going to start another podcast. just cause it's so, it's so easy.

And that's the thing is this is the beauty of this whole lifestyle as well. It's like being able to talk with people across the world. Like you're in Atlanta, Georgia right now and I'm in Singapore. Yeah. And it's as if we're like next door to each other, basically. Absolutely. that is just fantastic. And just being able to learn from people from different walks of life in different areas and just learning people that have been on different paths. And it's just so inspirational too.

to be able to do that, right? And you must be having an absolute ball just doing that and doing it face to face with people. think that's a brilliant idea as well for your podcast.

Yeah, it's, and I've heard so many great stories of people starting out anew and starting out fresh. So there are, there's so many good stories of what, of what I think your show is about, you know, giving people that courage, that push that you can do it. And there's a way. And so many, so many inspirational stories out there. Some crazy ass ideas too. So crazy ideas.

When I first started, like 20 years ago when I left my job and I started my copywriting business, I had no idea what I was doing.

Ken Stearns (23:40.91)

Properly no idea.

Absolutely. No experience whatsoever running a business, no business know how, no knowledge, no model to run off. Nobody in my family had ever run a business, you know, but the thing about Singapore actually is it's you've probably seen for yourself as well. It's very entrepreneurial. Very easy here to set up a business. And I knew quite a few people here who had their own business. So I just thought, well, if they can do it, I can do it. Right. So I went ahead and did it and just made every mistake in the book.

It's a great place to

Ange Dove (24:14.604)

And then you learn from those mistakes, right? And then it just strengthens you. And for me, it was just the case of if I don't do this, if I don't make a success of this, I'm not going to have the freedom for myself to live the life I want further on down the road. So it's like maybe some short term sacrifices, but for some long term gains.

You definitely have to have, again, that long-term view to be intentional, to have more than one thing going in the same direction. They might be disparate. They may look a little bit weird, but as long as they're important to you and you like them. Like I was doing guitar. I sucked at guitar. There was no reason it was going to do anything for me, but I just kept going. And it turned out to have an impact in

Hmm.

Ange Dove (24:51.278)

Mmm. Mmm.

Ken Stearns (25:09.388)

where I'm at today.

Okay, cool.

So do a lot of fun stuff that you want to do and do it for yourself.

Yeah, yeah, I play a little saxophone. So and again, I just picked that up just because I just love the sound. Just love the sound of the facts. But the problem is in Singapore, like you're in these little

I was going to say, yeah.

Ange Dove (25:33.208)

So loud, right? So I've got, if I could, I can't show you, because it's on the other side of the room, but my sax is in one of these big plastic boxes and you put your hands through these holes that you play and the box muffles the sound. So it doesn't deaden the sound. It still sounds like a sax, but it takes the decibels down. So you're not going to annoy the neighbors. It will take a respectable level.

Great.

Ken Stearns (26:01.122)

Because the saxes are real. That's a beautiful sound. I played trumpet as a kid. So I totally understand the neighbor effect.

it's beautiful. I love it.

Ange Dove (26:13.963)

I like the Trump.

Trumpet was obnoxious. was like, at least the saxophone's beautiful. mean, the trumpet's just plain, it can be beautiful, but it's loud.

It's like kids learning to play the violin as well.

Ange Dove (26:31.884)

Beautiful intro, but not in the wrong hands.

in the wrong. That's perfectly said in the wrong hands. It's absolutely in the wrong hands.

Yeah, so that kind of thing is like, as you say, just do what you want to do, follow your passion, do the things that bring you joy. Yeah, I think as well. And then you mentioned earlier, I think this is so important as well, because a lot of people say follow your passion. But if you want to run a business, you can't just follow your passion, right? It has to be profitable as well. So you have to find something you're good at, you're passionate about, and we'll make you money. So it's those three together.

And you you may need to do, you may need to do some things you don't probably want to do to kind of eat along the way. Right. So what am I, I had a good, a good friend of mine left, left corporate much, much longer, long time ago. And somebody I call once in a while, have a chat with just to kind of a pick me up chat and also

Hmm

Ken Stearns (27:37.528)

You know, he's kind of, he's a real hard ass. He'll be asking me, what about this? What are you doing with this? You know, and he's just, he's a great, he's a great sounding board, but I call him up to get beat up a little bit. And he's like, what are you doing? Are you, are you, are you the Wolf? He keeps asking me, what are you doing Wolf? And the Wolf thing is you have to eat every day. A Wolf has to eat every day. What are you doing? What are you eating? You know, he goes, I don't care if it's a bird or a cockroach or you're licking an ant hill. What are you doing?

And he's great. He's so like, you know, he's, he's, he's quite American, right? He's tripping down and he's just like, what are you eating? What are you eating? How are you finding it? What are you hunting? And, know, he's very passionate about, I don't care what you're doing, even if it's a side hustle, you need to eat. you can't just burn your money. In my situation, I'm investing a lot of money into the business. And so, know, for, and so for him, it's, it's what are you doing to eat? And, and so it did.

This is a good conversation I had several weeks ago, a couple months ago. And it did really get me to think about side hustles. What can I do to extend my bank account? How do I keep this going? What else should I be doing? It's a great conversation.

That's another thing as well is having multiple streams of income as they say, right? So you're not just relying on one thing. but find different ways to make money. So that, yeah, if something goes down, like, like COVID, for example, is a fantastic example, right? When COVID happened, a lot of people were stuck because they only had the one stream of income.

dead. And just by the you know, the government can, you know, make a mandate can't can travel done. Out of business. Yeah, I think the single, you know, the single stream is tough. And it's also why I talked about, you know, I'm going to do more more than one podcast, because I think, you know, one is they, they're easy to do. They're easy to set up. I don't want to say

Ange Dove (29:21.922)

Yeah. That's right.

speaker-1 (29:42.882)

I should say they're easy to start and they're easy to do to do it properly. It's a little bit. It's some work. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, behind the scenes, Angie has to meet all of our guests, screen, screen all the maniacs that want to get on our show.

you

Ange Dove (29:59.296)

I let you through.

interview some possibly less insane people and then somehow a few of the lunatics like myself get thrilled. And there's a lot of work going on behind the scenes. A lot of time and effort and just mental thinking about how the show is put together. But you can certainly start tomorrow and start making mistakes.

Ken Stearns (30:27.95)

Actually, it's how you know you're on the road, right? You got to start.

Yeah, yeah, I love that about what you said about just your momentum. Just starting just getting started, because once you do start things just start to snowball. you, you know, even if you don't, it might not go to plan, but you'll end up somewhere. Right. And that's the beauty of it is just go where it takes you.

moment.

Ken Stearns (30:56.578)

I kind of like, has everybody's, everybody's seen, I'm sure these videos of icy streets and you're seeing in a car going like on a hill and a car is going down the hill. That's momentum. In my book, if I was, if I was to, if I have, if I have a book I'm writing and one of them, one of the titles is more is about momentum. And if I was to have a visual, it would literally be that, you know, people running after the car and it's, know, and it's just kind of going.

And it's it's sliding down the hill and it's bouncing off cars and people are running after it going, know, try to get in it, try to, and then you want someone to try to hold the car to stop it. And guess what? You can't it's going, it's already has momentum.

Yeah. Yeah.

And it's not pretty and it's smashing into shit on the way down the hill. It's not pretty, but you can't stop it.

Well, that's the thing about starting a business is yeah, it's not pretty. It's not pretty. And it's not a straight line. People usually think of success as being a straight line up. It's not. It's rollercoaster.

Ken Stearns (32:05.45)

It looks like it looks like that visual right of literally the car going the car. Smashing into a car and you know there's and you're running alongside going no.

No, no!

Ken Stearns (32:18.424)

keeps going.

And then just to change tracks a little bit when you mentioned earlier, and this is one of the title of this episode of podcast as well, it's the third act talking about the third act, which I love. Just talk to me a little bit about that, because some people might be feeling, you know, they may be close to retirement, for example, and they've they've done their work and they're in and then nowadays as well, of course, people live longer because yes, medical treatments have got better, etc.

So you may have retired, but you may still have a third or even a half of your life left, right? It's what do you do? So talk to me about the third act and what it means for you and why you're doing what you're doing now.

And that really was me. I really was looking at it going, you know, I'm going to retire at 60 or even 65. Right. Even if I retired at 65, what, am I going to do? Um, I don't want to be that, that person sending, you know, travel photos, you know, I'm on a cruise and now I'm going to Palm Springs.

And you know, and I'm with friends that aren't really my friends because obviously I didn't hang out with him. Like, mean, I'm sure there'd be some of them would be close friends, but not everybody can be at the same place at the same time. People have their lives still. And even if you're married, you know, what do you, you know, maybe if you're married and you're thinking, what do you do together in this third act? How can you come together as a couple and your third act together? Because now you spend all this time doing

Ken Stearns (33:55.438)

going to the office this way and you get in the car as you both go this way. What if you both get in the car and you plan on going to go that way?

Yeah.

Ange Dove(34:04.524)

Yeah, that's an interesting topic, actually.

You could do a whole topic of couples doing third acts together and what that looks like.

I used to teach, this isn't my teaching days when I was teaching English, I used to teach this Japanese businessman in Singapore and he was close to retirement. But he was based in Singapore, but his wife was in Japan and always had been. He'd spent most of his career in different countries, predominantly Singapore. A lot of it was in Singapore. So they had completely separate lives. And he was saying to me,

You know, I'm due to retire. I'm due to go back to Japan. And I'm really scared, actually. I'm scared because I know my wife doesn't want me around. Because he would just be in her way. She's built her whole life without him. They've had 30, 40 years of marriage and he hasn't been around and she's had her own life and she's perfectly fine. And she's getting his paycheck.

Absolutely.

Ange Dove (35:11.49)

But she's built her own life. So he was, need to find something that when I go back, I can contribute to that relationship. So he says that I'm going to learn to cook.

Beautiful. I'm gonna be the man in the family. a clever guy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was good.

they could open a restaurant together. She's a, if she's into cook, if she's into food, you know, and so I think, you know, for me, the, that, that pondering that question of what does retirement look like and what do I want it, you know, what do I want it to look like? And I guess maybe that's difference for me was I didn't want it to be, you know, just traveling and kind of just biding my time and waiting for the grandkids to have a moment when it was the right time to visit. You know, I wanted to make sure.

had my own life and control of my own life and also to contribute. I think there is, I do want to give back something and I don't want to, I've got a lot of business experience, life experience. I'd love to capitalize on that in a way for my own self and also just for other people. These are something I can share along the way and I can make an impact.

Ange Dove (36:25.696)

It's like what they say, youth is wasted on the young, right? When you're old, you have so much knowledge and so much to give, but then nobody wants to hear it.

Yeah, nobody wants to eat. like hard to get out of bed just to tell someone.

But also the thing is, think as well, the idea of retirement is changing. Because for two reasons. One, would say, is that the way society is structured now, there are not enough people working to fund retirement in the traditional sense. So you can't really retire on the government retirement pension plans and things like that. And then the other is that

Yeah.

Ange Dove (37:13.324)

I suppose you can have your own autonomy and like now with technology the way it is, you run your own life, you make your own money, you do your own thing. So it's given people in retirement a way to just be able to do something completely different and make money while they're doing it.

Yeah. Yeah.

with the knowledge they have.

Right. Right. You don't, yeah, you don't even have to learn anything, do you? Just apply, just leverage what you've got. You've got a huge, you know, you've got huge knowledge and experience when you're 55 and when you're 50, depending upon what your career has been. Yeah, I think, I think there is a, there is a risk too of, of money is not, money's not a real thing when you retire, you know, financial security.

Yeah.

Ken Stearns (38:02.542)

If you're 60 or 65, you live to be 90, that's a lot of money. And we don't know what inflation is gonna be like. There could be 10 years of hyperinflation, it could wipe out your savings, even if you think you've got enough.

Mm. Yeah. And even if you have things like the Lehman Brothers things happening again and you have your life savings wiped out by some kind of fraud or whatever that's. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's one thing as well is that you can't you can't guarantee anything you can't see into the future. You can't take things for granted as well.

All your planning you've done may not matter.

Ken Stearns (38:46.35)

And I think for, you know, the, a lot of these things aside comes back to, waking up, you know, when you're waking up in the morning, if you don't, if you're not going to a corporate and you're not, you don't have that Kool-Aid to drink, you don't have that important job where people need you. What are you going to do? And what's life going to be like? Try to imagine that, you know, and imagine it with a real lens on not the, won't have to go to work.

I can just do whatever I want. What does that look like?

Yeah. It's kind of like, yeah. Sorry. Go ahead.

You know, just ask those hard questions to yourself.

Yeah, yeah, and then you might be surprised what comes up as well.

Ken Stearns (39:27.982)

I think you will and have that conversation with your spouse.

Yeah. Yeah. few days ago, a few days ago, a few months ago with a client and she came in, I have a like a VIP day where she can come in and she spends the whole day with me and we thrash out whatever needs to be done in her business. So she's an accountant and she runs an accounting firm. So I thought she was coming in and we were going to be talking about that. We were going to systemize. That was the plan was we were going to systemize her business. So we'd free up her time.

And then so I just started the day with just saying, what is it you really want? She said, I want to teach women how to go through menopause. And I was like, OK, well, that's completely out of left field. But that was what she wanted. That's what she wants to spend the rest of her life doing. She doesn't want to do accountancy. She wants to spend the rest of her life.

boy.

Ken Stearns (40:28.482)

Wow.

taking women through this journey and of like accepting who they are and you know, through menopause and the change and all that kind of stuff. doing coaching and training through that.

Ange Dove (40:44.096)

Absolutely. Absolutely.

I mean that's

Just one question. What is it you really

Powerful question, right?

Yeah. And then at the end of the session, because then what we did then is that for the morning, we then thought, okay, right. Let's, let's, let's do the system thing. So we're going to work on this now, right. So we do all the system thing for her. And then in the afternoon, we then planned out the branding for this idea, this new new thing has what her system was going to be within that business.

Ange Dove (41:23.458)

And we came up with the fab system, FAB, and I can't remember what they stand for now. But so she was basically training around diet, exercise and mental health. Basically, those were the three things that she was working on. So we devised all of that and planned all that out. Then at the end of the day, she burst into tears because she and it was just tears of happiness. She said, finally, I can see where I'm going now. And now I know this is what I want to do.

Magic. Yeah. Magic moment.

It was amazing. was really amazing. Yeah. And that's it. Just from doing what you want to do and not what somebody tells you you should do. There's a lot of people that are stuck in jobs where their parents have told them they should do this. They've ended up in that.

That is so magic.

Ken Stearns (42:11.37)

You're in a country full of people like that.

I know so many people who have got law degrees and haven't trained, haven't worked as lawyers.

or doctors, like, I mean, Singapore doctor, lawyer. I'm trying to think doctor, lawyer. That's about it, right? After that, there's nothing. After that, you're a shame.

Ange Dove (42:35.084)

my god. So yeah, it's yeah, be you, be you.

be that's funny you I mean that story is it's interesting because I had a similar reaction when I finally quit. And I really quit my job and you know man that night you know I was just overwhelmed with emotion.

Yeah, it's powerful.

But was it a good feeling or was it scary?

you know, absolutely. Like you said, like tears of joy, right? You know, also tears of, you know, fear, like also fear and expectation. What have I done? Absolutely. A whole lot of what have I done? A whole lot of what have I done? And that's so terrifying. Letting go is terrifying. And then doing it, doing it publicly.

Ange Dove (43:15.566)

What have I done?

Ange Dove (43:31.992)

Yeah.

I was really quite public about what I was doing and where I was going and what I was going to do. people would think I was a frigging madman. I was leaving corporate life and I was going to go start a podcast and drive around America. mean, other people in Vietnam thought I was completely lost my mind. It was more about poor Ken, that, he's doing such a brave thing. was like, poor man's lost his mind. It's completely gone bad.

So it's a different perspective.

It's funny, right? The different, totally different perspectives. For me, it was something completely different, Terrifying, joyful.

So with your questions as well, and people have different perspectives on what the question means, we all have different views, right? Coming out of things from different angles.

Ken Stearns (44:23.49)

Yes, the, think it's a good, kind of something to point out that I've seen during the jar, as different as we are and as different, even we interpret the questions different, that there's like this bell curve of, you know, and in the middle is this human stuff.

Right.

And we're so close on human stuff, you know, about love and karma, acceptance, forgiveness, compassion. We all have really very tight, close feel like opinions. And we're not really far apart on the important stuff in society. You know, we've given the fringe have got the spotlight and the megaphone somehow. We've let the idiots get control of the, of the microphone system and the streamcast systems. yeah, we've somehow the asylum idiots have got into the control room and are running the controls right now. The reality is we don't hate each other. We're not a divided society. are. Humans are. And you you you do this, you call up strangers and you meet people from on the other side of the planet and find out where, you know, we might disagree on politics or.

the asylum.

Ken Stearns (45:44.174)

some things, but the core stuff, the stuff that matters, when the world's on fire, you know, when the...

everybody else together, right?

We're pretty close to each other, actually.

I mean, you just have to see, for example, the earthquake that's happened recently and how people have come together to help with that.

Don't care what country it's in. Everybody sees a baby coming out of rubble and we all kind of figure out, yeah, we're human.

Ange Dove (46:12.982)

Yeah, yeah. And what truly matters? my God. Well, we have had a great conversation.

Babies.

Ken Stearns (46:26.574)

I hope the audience got what they were coming for.

I hope so. think so. been an absolute pleasure talking to you. And it's just so inspiring, I think, to see, you know, that for people that you can, one, you can leave the corporate job and there is a life after it and you can make it work how you want to make it work and you've got the freedom to do so. And also, if people are facing retirement, that's an act. Also, you can build that the way you want.

Yeah, what are you going to do?

You're the illustration of that basically. Yeah. So if people want to learn more about you, Ken, where can we send them to?

Be intentional.

Ken Stearns (47:12.204)

Yeah, just go to the main website is www.thegyar.live. So just the jar.live. And there's all kinds of links, especially in the upper right corner to YouTube shows. We did a couple of Netflix kind of a thing. It's kind of cute. We first started, the interviews are there, the podcasts are there and everything. You can find everything you want to find out there.

Okay, and we can start to learn about your 444 questions.

We should finish with a question.

god, go on.

Angie, I'm gonna pull you out of question. I'll do one too.

Ange Dove (47:52.182)

Mmm!

Okay, so I'm pulling it out.

you

All right, Andy, here's your question.

Okay?

Ange Dove (48:09.23)

Do you meditate? Did someone teach you or did you learn it on your own?

Are you a meditator?

not. I'm I'm okay. So part of it is I don't know if when you were living here, you heard of this phrase that can chonk spider. Do you ever hear that? No, I think all that a few times. So it's basically someone running around and here like a headless chicken kind of thing. So I'm I'm I'm trying to learn to relax. And I think I'm better at it today than I used to be. But generally, I find I have to be doing things.

No.

Ange Dove (48:47.786)

And if you Okay, I give you an example of it's not really meditation based with my daughter. My daughter took up yoga. And I thought, well, I'll go with her and I'll do yoga with her because that'd be good for me as well. I'll keep

Absolutely. Yeah.

Ken Stearns (49:06.67)

I mean, you have an ACDC shirt on. Nothing says chaos more than ACDC. Okay, so we know. Now my experience, Angie, is the jar never, the jar is quite prophetic. There's a reason every, not a reason every card, but quite often there's a message in the cards.

I can't meditate. No, honestly, I did the yoga with my daughter, right? And I'll tell you what the hell this ended up. So we hired a private yoga teacher and she was teaching my daughter and I went along to the lessons and my daughter was like managing it all perfectly fine. And I'm like, hurts.

it's not easy.

And also it's just so slow. But you know what do instead? I do boxing.

Yeah, that's the point.

Ken Stearns (50:03.795)

okay. That's more your style.

All right.

You

Too funny.

So your question, what's your question?

Ken Stearns (50:17.794)

What's the easiest way to truly and impactfully help others?

Ken Stearns (50:26.656)

I think, well, then I mean, I know, because that's what I'm doing, which is listen.

Ken Stearns (50:35.464)

And I think the power of, I have learned the power of listening and hearing and allowing people to tell their story.

Hmm

You're doing it. I mean, you feel it. It's impactful.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it's like, I say like with my copy, I was just talking to a client this morning about this. With my copywriting business, she was saying, well, should we do interviews with our people via email or do we do it on zoom? And I said, definitely on zoom, because I need to be able to hear their story. I need to hear what they're saying. And that when they say something, it brings up something else. So then I can ask the next question and delve deeper.

That's impactful.

Ken Stearns (51:11.032)

Thanks

Ange Dove (51:19.084)

If we did that in email, there's no way you'd get that information.

God, not by email. Yeah.

Yeah

Thanks for having me on.

Yeah, I love your ideas and I love the jar thing. It's absolutely fantastic. I'm going to check that out. And so where are you heading off to next? Where is the next?

Ken Stearns (51:40.622)

So I'm here in Atlanta and I'll be actually I haven't done my Atlanta interviews yet. So I'm on a kind of a little sabbatical kind of a creative break. I'm trying to write. I'm trying to do some writing or at least sketch out my next book and and then also maybe start another podcast.

Nice. So do you find your days are very relaxed and slow and intentional in that way?

Yeah, yeah, right now, they're very, have little pieces of work that I'm doing. And I just got a little block time for, you know, spend a bit of time on this, a bit of time on this and a bit of time on this. And at the end of the day, I've got, you know, if I've still got some brain power left, it's actually sometimes a good time to start doing the creative part is I'm a little bit, my brain is a little bit, I do good on both when I'm fully charged. And then also when I'm completely dead brain.

Really?

Yeah, because then the noise is gone. The squirrels have gone to sleep. So if I can find myself, my voice, it will come out. A lot of the words will come out really easily. can write quite effectively.

Ange Dove (52:42.413)

Right.

Ange Dove (52:58.686)

Okay, I find first thing in the morning if I get up early in the morning, then I'm really productive.

Yeah, I am productive in morning, but there are those, those spots you can tap into when you're tired.

OK. Yeah.

creative spot because then like i said the noise is gone

Yeah. Okay.

Ken Stearns (53:19.822)

Because when you're sharp in the morning, you're very productive. You're very, it's very sequential, very listy, very productively. Take the box, crank emails. It's very busy. Like you were saying before, this is your mind. When all that's kind of gone down, that power is gone. There's another reserve there.

Actually, when I think about it, because I think like when I was very first starting my business, and I transitioned slowly from a full time job into and that's why I had the business as a sideline at first. And so then I was working around the clock. So then I would have like sparks of creativity first thing in the morning, do something then go to work, come home.

guys.

Ken Stearns (54:03.454)

that nice

Ange Dove (54:14.604)

And then in the late in the evening, was when I would do most of the copywriting because that was the only time really I had to do it. yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, and have to be, you have to have a quiet mind to do quiet, cause you really have to dig into the topic. Yeah. So it's, I think reminds myself that some of the, best stuff is later when I'm, when I'm next day, you read it you're like, yeah, that was really good.

Mmm.

Ange Dove (54:42.444)

Yeah. So thank you so much for coming on. Yeah. So we'll check out the jar.live and people can learn more about you there as well.

Thanks, Angie, for having me on. Bye, everybody.

you can. Bye. Okay, that's it for this episode. And if you've enjoyed it, then just press like and share it with others and subscribe so that you don't miss an episode in future. I would love to have you back. You can also check out my offers on angeduff.com. That's angedove.com.

And if you'd like to inquire about coaching with me just to get that business built and fast track your success in doing that, then you can get on a call with me and that's at angstuff.com forward slash apply, A-P-P-L-Y. I'd really love to speak to you on the call.