From Corporate Burnout To Digital Nomad Coach

Ange Dove (00:01)

Okay, welcome to Your The Boss Podcast Show. And today I have Dina Ramadan with me, and she is a digital nomad coach, and that is just so on point with what I train as well. So me and Dina have had a great chat about what we do, and we're completely in alignment. And it's I'm really looking forward to this episode. So

Dina is, as I said, she's a digital nomad coach, entrepreneur, and she's the author of Escape the Nine to Five. We'll be talking about that book later on. And since 2014, she's helped aspiring and established entrepreneurs build location-independent careers and online businesses that give them true freedom. So having traveled over 50 countries while running her own business for over 12 years.

Dina embodies the lifestyle she teaches. She's the creator of the remote ownership method. We'll talk a little bit about that today as well. A framework designed to help people take full control of their income, time, and location through sustainable online business models. Through her coaching, content, and global community, Dina empowers people to step outside traditional career paths and design a life that's both profitable and extraordinary.

Dina Ramadan (01:01)

Yes.

Ange Dove (01:22)

So Dina, welcome to the show.

Dina Ramadan (01:25)

Hey, thanks so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here.

Ange Dove (01:29)

You're welcome. You are welcome. So, Dina, just so obviously I've given an introduction there, but in your own words, just tell me what in your own words, what is it that you do and how did you start more importantly?

Dina Ramadan (01:45)

Okay, well, basically, I help people go from no idea of what they want to do for an online business. All they know is that they want to have more freedom, they want to travel, they don't want to have a boss, they want to be in control of their own life. And yeah, I help people build that business, get their first bit of money online, grow and scale that and also help them.

change locations if they want to travel. I also help them find work that they love. So it could be something that they've done before. It could be something completely new. And I also help people like figure out what freedom actually looks like for them so then they can start building it. Because if you're not intentional, you'll never get.

Ange Dove (02:31)

Exactly. You need the map and you need the directions on the map, right? To get to your goal for sure. so how did this all start for you? So were you always an entrepreneur or would did you have a nine to five job that you escaped from as well?

Dina Ramadan (02:35)

Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (02:49)

So a little bit of both to be honest. I always knew that I wanted to travel since I was about eight years old. My sister, who was 12 years older than me, she left university to go and travel the world and she would speak to me from internet cafes because iPads and phones didn't really exist back then. And I would just be so amazed about her stories and her adventures. And I was like, one day when I'm grown up, I'm gonna do that.

Ange Dove (03:10)

Yeah.

Ange Dove (03:18)

Okay.

Dina Ramadan (03:19)

And then fast forward to when I was 16, my parents were both doctors and they would work weekends and nights and long shifts during the day. And I was like, to be honest, I don't want to do that. Like that sounds horrible. If that's what work is, I'm out. That's not what I'm looking for. But I had to pick a career path to go to university and I chose psychology because I was really interested in the human mind and.

the power of suggestion, the power of helping people become their best selves. And when I was in university, I started a business on the side while I was studying, which was a charity fundraising business where I would raise money for Macmillan Cancer and link community development. So building schools in Africa and stuff. And I kind of fell into that, but it was just something I was like, I know a lot of thespians, a lot of DJs. I'm going to...

Ange Dove (04:09)

Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (04:17)

do something with my network and do something really fun and I'll do it for charity. And then that led me, after I finished uni to work as a freelance event manager, where I was working for different festivals and parties around the world, which was not around the world, around the UK. And that was pretty cool, but it wasn't really paying me enough to live the lifestyle that I wanted. At one point I was getting like a hundred hour weeks.

Ange Dove (04:41)

Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (04:46)

and I was making a hundred pound a day. So it just wasn't really like giving me that lifestyle. And it wasn't a hundred pound a day, sorry, it was a hundred pound a week. So I was getting paid a pound a day, which is even more ridiculous. And other events, I was getting paid a hundred pounds a day. But yeah, and then I ended up, no, no, I was just...

Ange Dove (04:50)

Okay.

Ange Dove (04:56)

Yeah.

Ange Dove (05:08.086)

Okay. So the math the maths basically didn't add up, so

Dina Ramadan (05:14)

using savings to survive, asking, you know, my parents to just give me that extra 50 quid so I could buy groceries and stuff like that. So it wasn't great. But then I went into a corporate job doing corporate sales for an event company and the money was good. And I was, you know, I was pretty okay at what I was doing, but

Ange Dove (05:17)

Yeah.

Ange Dove (05:25)

Mm.

Ange Dove (05:32)

Mm-hmm.

Dina Ramadan (05:41)

I found that working for pharmaceuticals and oil and gas, they weren't really aligned to who I am. I'm like a little hippie at heart. I was like, I felt this like misalignment in what I was doing. And it ended up with me crying nearly every day after work, just being like, my God, the corporate world is so cruel. I was getting bullied. It was just...

Ange Dove (05:48)

Yeah. Yeah. Bohemian.

Dina Ramadan (06:09)

I was just, I was one of the only women in the team that I was in. There were two women and it was just dog eat dog. And I was just like, God, this sounds awful. Like this is awful. I, six months into the job, my boss brings me over to his office and I was scared because I was like, I think I know where this is going to go. And he just comes to me and says, Dina, this job isn't for you. And I was like, my God.

And I was just kind of waiting for him to finish his sentence. And he was like, I think you would be a really good coach. And I think you would also really value reading the four hour work week. The four hour work week, I was like, oh my God, that sounds amazing. Like, that's just like a message from the universe.

Ange Dove (06:59)

Okay. That's not his way of thinking. I'm just thinking like she's lazy. She just needs to work four hours a day. It's not an expected thing. my God. But but it did you the biggest favor, basically. Yeah.

Dina Ramadan(07:05)

Maybe he was, maybe he was thinking that, but he was just like coaching and we, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause I think he's an entrepreneur himself, you know, and then he got sucked into a company. Cause I remember him telling me that he was just contracting for the company before he took a full-time role with them. So I think he was doing coaching for the CEO. So he kind of saw something in me that he had in himself.

Ange Dove (07:18)

Okay.

Ange Dove (07:27)

Right.

Yeah, or consulting or something like that.

Dina Ramadan (07:34)

And he was like, you would be a really good coach. you know, 14 years ago, coaching was for CEOs and retired people. wasn't for people who were 24. So I was like, okay, I'll try, I'll see what coaching is. And I went to a weekend in London and it just opened my eyes to...

personal development and all the questions. And I remembered that I wanted to travel. I remembered what it was like to run my own little event business for charity fundraising. And I was like, my God, yes, this is a really cool skill. I'm going to learn it. And I put the rest of my savings into a master's in organizational psychology because I had limiting beliefs on

Ange Dove (08:09)

Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (08:28)

what I could do as a 24 year old. And yeah, then I also went on a solo travel trip to Thailand, which is where the other money went so I could just go and experience the world. And I was amazed by what I saw. And since then, I've been traveling ever since. And yeah, I just love coaching. I love business and

Ange Dove (08:30)

No.

Ange Dove (08:47)

Okay.

Dina Ramadan (08:55)

I started doing life coaching and that was really cool. I was helping people like get over breakups or quit smoking or figure out what their goals are. But then a lot of people who were coming to me, cause I was living in an artist community in London, were people who were entrepreneurs asking me like, how could they get more visible online or how could I sell more pieces of art? How could I develop my acting?

Ange Dove (09:18)

Hi.

Dina Ramadan (09:24)

How could I become a singer? So I ended up falling into learning, teaching people like how to be more confident and how to make money from their creative skills, which then turned into digital nomad coaching because I was traveling all the time. People were like, how are you running a business online while you're traveling to all these different countries? And I was just like, yeah, because I'm...

Ange Dove (09:33.422)

Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (09:51)

because it's online I can do it from anywhere you don't you're not stuck to a place and I didn't know what a digital nomad was at that point yeah and during

Ange Dove (09:54)

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. So someone did someone call you that then and then that became the name of your

Dina Ramadan (10:05)

a few people, cause I started posting lots of travel shots on, on, online. people were like, have you heard of digital nomads or I I'm creating a co-living or you should come to this event. And then it slowly came into my bike into my peripheral that digital nomad exists. And then I started looking at it a bit more strongly and I was like, I'm gonna, yeah, I'm a digital nomad. I can be the digital nomad coach.

Ange Dove (10:28)

Yeah.

Yeah, this is it. This is it. Yeah. I I love I love what you said about you started off with life coaching, right? And and and then you got to know like people that naturally gravitated to you and you got to know your audience and then you got to understand what the needs were that of the people that resonated with you. So that's

Dina Ramadan (10:40)

Yeah.

Who my audience? Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (10:52)

Yeah.

Ange Dove (10:53)

That's gold, I think and that's something you can only do once you actually start doing it, right? You've got to there's no point planning and planning, right? You've got to get out there, do it, meet the people, and then listen. What are the needs? And then you build your business that way.

Dina Ramadan (10:59)

totally.

Dina Ramadan (11:05)

Yeah. And because I had all of that event experience as well, I learned how businesses, because events, each event is a business. Like you have to create the logo, you've got to create the branding, you've got to get an audience engaged, you've got to get people to buy tickets. So every event was like marketing basically. And as a freelancer as well, I had to do my own taxes. had to...

Ange Dove (11:10)

Yeah.

Ange Dove (11:16)

Yeah.

Ange Dove (11:23)

Right.

Dina Ramadan (11:32)

and put myself out there, I had to network. So all of the things that I've done, and I was in a sales role in the corporate job that I was doing. So all of that, like I needed to do that to get to where I am today.

AngeDove (11:46.914)

That is really cool. That's really cool. So you actually had a a step up in in that sense in that you were already new marketing. You didn't have to learn it from scratch, you were already doing it, so

Dina Ramadan (11:57)

you always have to learn marketing. It's a never ending game. But yeah, I did have the experience of how to set up businesses quickly. Like, cause just to create an event, you need two or three months planning and you need at least six weeks marketing. And that's what you need for any launch online.

Ange Dove (11:59)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ange Dove (12:05)

Yeah.

Ange Dove (12:10)

Mm, mm.

Ange Dove (12:15)

Mm mm.

Right. Right. So that that's cool that you've got that like already you already knew that, so that wasn't something that was holding you back, right? Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (12:27)

No, no. and in the meantime, I also set up a corporate wellbeing business where we would go into organizations and do like massage, yoga, art classes, fitness classes, just to, cause I was trying to get corporates after I worked in that horrible corporate to create real connection and bonds between staff. But that business kept me in London. I wanted to travel and I was like, coaching is so much more engaging for me rather than just.

Ange Dove (12:43)

Okay.

Dina Ramadan (12:57)

getting other freelancers into companies. So I had that business as well. But yeah, I'm not corporate. I've learned that. And you've got to listen to who you are.

Ange Dove (13:00)

Okay. Mm.

Exactly. Yeah. But you could also help people that are in corporate to realise who they are, right? And then it might be their escape from the nine to five. Once they realise this isn't for me, I should be doing something different, right? So yeah. So you're actually helping people change their lives.

Dina Ramadan (13:12)

Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Dina Ramadan (13:17)

Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (13:22)

Yeah, exactly. I feel like people kind of get comfortable with discomfort. So they just go, I'm not happy with my job. I'm not happy with my life, but this feels comfortable. know what is predictable, what's going to happen. And that's not the way to live.

Ange Dove (13:33)

Mm.

Ange Dove (13:44)

Yeah. Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (13:50)

If you're not happy with where you are, you need to be bigger, be bolder, and go for the thing that you think that you would love, or at least talk to someone like me or you that can help them expand their horizons and see what's out there to live an extraordinary life.

Ange Dove (14:01)

Hmm. Yeah.

Ange Dove (14:07)

Yeah, 'cause I think you're like me. It's like now that you've you've made that break, you'd never go back. Right? No.

Dina Ramadan (14:14)

No, no way.

Ange Dove (14:17)

Yeah, I think and I like what you you obviously we spoke before we got on today and we've had conversations and I like what you said about because people I hear a lot from people that they have a the the real fear of taking that step is you're leaving a guaranteed income and having to step out and now you're responsible for making your own income and that can be scary for someone who's never done it before.

Dina Ramadan (14:24)

Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (14:44)

Yeah.

Ange Dove (14:45)

But you gave a really good perspective on that when we were talking about your your your job actually being your clients. Can you explain what that is?

Dina Ramadan (14:55)

Okay, well, I call it the safe job myth. It's the idea that, you know, you when you have a job, you've got one client. And if that client decides to fire you or let you go, you'll then go to zero income, and you've got nothing. And you have to build yourself back up or find the next job or find the next client. But when you have a business, you usually have between four to 10 clients.

Ange Dove (14:59)

Mm-hmm.

Dina Ramadan (15:24)

So if one client decides not to work with you, you still have three income sources or even nine income sources. So it's less of a hit when you only lose one client over your main employer that pays you everything.

Ange Dove (15:37)

Yes.

Ange Dove (15:45)

Right. And I think people found that out during the pandemic as well, that the people that were uncertain were the ones in jobs because those jobs were going. Whereas the entrepreneurs were just getting out there and making their money any way they could in terms of getting online and doing things, right? So I think the world the world has turned. Yeah, and with AI.

Dina Ramadan (15:54)

Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (16:00)

Yeah.

And with AI?

AI, I'm, you know, my partner, actually works for a corporate company. He does it remotely. he, they just, they just made 160 people redundant. I'm not going to say the company, but then, you know, that's just the way the world's going. They're going to try, try and replace you with computers who can do the job a lot faster than you. So having a business means that you're more in control and you can use,

Ange Dove (16:13)

Yeah. Mm.

Ange Dove (16:19)

No. Mm-hmm.

Ange Dove (16:26)

Yeah.

Mm. Mm.

Dina Ramadan (16:36)

AI as an asset that can help you on your journey because AI is just a crazy, it's a crazy world that we don't quite understand yet. But if you have a business, you're in control of your trajectory.

Ange Dove (16:38)

Mm.

Ange Dove (16:47)

Yeah.

Ange Dove (16:51)

Yes, that's right. So I was like with my business, even though I had a business, and this is a thing as well that I think people need to understand is that even if you're in control of your business, you can only co control you can't control the external forces around that. So even in the 20 years of my business, there was constant disruption in terms of and it was all it was all tech. It was all from tech. The first disruption was Google.

when Google came up, right? There was a there was life before Google. When that's old I am. when Google started, that changed people's perception on content and what that content was actually needed. And I used to literally, this is the truth. I used to sometimes go into because I was running a copywriting agency. I used to sometimes go into agencies for like design agencies for a brief for a job. And

The the copy was always the last thing people thought about. This is in the the Singapore environment. I don't I don't know what it's like in the UK, but in the Singapore environment, the copy was it just got the last look. Everything was about the design. And I would literally go in and they'd say, just write some stuff here, here to fill this space. Write some stuff for this space and write some stuff for this. But there was no respect for copywriting, right? Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (18:13)

my gosh, I see it as the most valuable part, personally.

Ange Dove (18:18)

It is, right? Without the words, the pictures don't mean an awful lot, right? So so that's that's how it used to be. And then Google came along and then people got to realise, okay, to be found on Google I need content. I need content, content. So content became king, right? So then the need for writers came up and then suddenly every writer on the planet came out of the woodwork and I'll be I'll be a writer, right? So then competition got

Dina Ramadan (18:22)

Yeah

Dina Ramadan (18:37)

Yes.

Ange Dove (18:48)

Got harder, but at the same time, there was more work because there was more demand. so that was one disruption that actually helped in the short term. but then because more writers came up, then eventually copywriting became a corporate job. So companies hired writers full-time in-house. So I lost then like my main client base because my they were all MNCs, multinational companies.

So they had the budget to hire a team in-house. So that's what happened. So I lost them. And then that so that was one technology thing that happened. And there were a few others along the way. And so it was always a need to, as we said in COVID, pivot, right? You had to pivot, do something, you know, change. So through every business, you've just got to be aware that there will be change and you've got to be prepared for change and you go ahead and have the foresight to see what's coming.

Dina Ramadan (19:44)

Yeah.

Ange Dove (19:45)

You know, and and then chat GPT for my business, then that was the final nail in the coffin, if you like, is that it will never go back to the way it was, never. So it's just accepting that and saying, Okay, well, how can I change what I'm doing to pivot to use my skills the same as you did with yours? Use my skills to do something else that will help people. And and and that's that's the thing, nothing ever stays the same.

Dina Ramadan (19:52)

Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (20:03)

Yes, yeah.

Ange Dove (20:13)

Was it was I was talking to you about the meme, right, on Facebook with the Yeah. The it's not a straight line, it's it's true that's also

Dina Ramadan (20:16)

Yes, yeah, yeah. You go up and up and round and backwards, forwards.

Ange Dove (20:26)

So i in that kind of sense, like if you're running a business and you know that it's like that, it's not a straight line, it's back and forward and all over the place and and you can be high, then you can be low, whatever, how do you maintain your mental state, if you like, and how do you keep going?

Dina Ramadan (20:43)

That's a really, that's a really interesting question. I feel like when you're in your Dharma, when you find the thing that you're supposed to do and it becomes almost like an obsession where you're just like, okay, what do I need to do next? And then days go by, weeks go by, months go by, and you're still in love with what you're doing. Even when, you know, it doesn't give you the results that you are hoping for, but it

Ange Dove (20:52)

Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (21:13)

It gives you the drive and the mission. I, because I remember thinking when I was like 25, like after I'd finished, when I was working in the corporate wellbeing business and I was like, what am I supposed to do? What am I supposed to do? And then I was like, I don't have an identity. I don't know what business I should do. So I applied for jobs and then I was doing coaching and then I was trying to run the corporate wellbeing business. And then.

Ange Dove (21:16)

Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (21:42)

Fast forward like 10, 11, 12 years later, I'm still a digital nomad. I'm still coaching and that's who I'm supposed to be. And I've been through a lot of hustle. Like I've had months where I've had loads of clients and months where I've had like few clients, but it's still like a labor of love that I love to do. And I know that that's the right thing for me because I'm good at it.

That's what I help people find. like, doesn't necessarily have to be your passion, but it becomes your passion because you fall in love with the process of building the business and building the skill.

Ange Dove (22:20)

Yeah, it's it's so important. It it's the kind of thing if if it doesn't it doesn't feel like work. Right? You can spend hours doing it but it doesn't feel like work. Yeah. Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (22:28)

Yeah. Yeah. And that's the difference between entrepreneurship and a job you just apply for and, you know, fall lucky and get.

Ange Dove (22:35)

Yeah.

Ange Dove (22:40)

Yeah, nice. I like that. So over those twelve years then that you've been running the business, do you are are you completely a solopreneur still now, or do you have a team? How does it work?

Dina Ramadan (22:54)

Different situations for different periods of the business. I've had a sales team before. I've had a marketing agency that I've been working with. I had a VA at one point. I still kind of have a VA, but he comes in and out rather than works with me consistently because I've managed to systemize everything and I don't have to work.

like I don't have enough work to delegate. So he just comes in on projects. I also have like a web website team that have like, because last year I changed my website and now I've changed it again this year. So they've been helping me with that and with SEO and getting good ranking on AI and getting good ranking on Google. So I've been working with them.

Ange Dove (23:40)

Right.

Dina Ramadan (23:46)

Yeah. And then I did have a closer and a setter for my business. And I tend to bring those in when I am traveling full time, because at the moment I have a base in Wales where I can be close to my mum and also close to my partner. So I'll travel for like say six months of the year and I'll get in a closer to do the sales calls then. But now I just do the sales calls myself because that's what

Ange Dove (23:50)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Ange Dove (23:59)

Mm. Yeah.

Dina Ramadan(24:14)

people really want, they want to connect with me.

Ange Dove (24:16)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I like that. Yeah, I I interviewed someone for the podcast a few months ago on the same kind of thing where is two brothers, so twin brothers running a company together and for over twenty years they've been running their agency and it's always been just the two of them, they've never taken on.

staff and the reason they said was we just don't need to, right? Why would you do it if you don't need that expense and the business can run with just the two of them? It's there was no need. So it's and I was reading about it last night in a book as well. It's this idea that sometimes we try to do things 'cause it looks good, right? Get an office because that's what a business does, right?

Dina Ramadan (24:47)

Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (24:57)

Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (25:01)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ange Dove (25:02)

But that can just be money down the drain when you don't need to spend those expenses, you know. And when I with with my copywriting business in 2016, I took it from I had a physical office, really nice office, and 10 staff in-house. So my expenses were like huge every month trying to get this this money in every month was really stressful. And

Dina Ramadan (25:05)

Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (25:23)

Yeah.

Ange Dove (25:28)

I just kind of stopped one day and just thought, What am I doing? What am I doing? I didn't plan this, I didn't build this, right? And then with technology being the way it was at that point, I realized I could just take everything back home and just do it completely online. So I was safe I was serving the same customers, doing the same work.

Dina Ramadan (25:33)

Yeah.

Ange Dove (25:51)

It was just a different business model. Instead of being physically there in the office, it was completely online. And then I paid people that you do, paid people on a project basis. If the work came in, I could farm it off to somebody. But yeah, it but it wasn't a fixed expense that had to be covered every month. so this way of doing business,

Dina Ramadan (25:5)

Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (26:03)

Yes.

Dina Ramadan (26:08)

Yeah.

Ange Dove (26:12)

I just feel there needs to be more support for this and more acceptance that this is the way business can be done today. I think people are still stuck in that, you know, business for the industrial age. We're not in the industrial age anymore, right? We're in the digital age. So there should be more support for an understanding of running a business. And I think people also don't understand.

Dina Ramadan (26:19)

Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (26:27)

No.

Ange Dove (26:35)

How little of a team you need to run like an agency. You don't need that many people, but people always imagine, they must have a big team. And if they find out there's like two of you, then it's like, how do you do this? Are you sure you can do this? So, and again, it's leveraging the tools that are there. AI now just makes things so much faster as well. All right. So, yeah, just love it. So,

Dina Ramadan (26:37)

Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (26:46)

Yeah

Dina Ramadan (26:59)

Yeah, yeah.

Ange Dove (27:04)

Tell me about your your method that we mentioned in the intro and then also your book 'cause I'm I I love the look of your book, so I'm interested to hear more about that. Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (27:07)

Okay.

Dina Ramadan (27:11)

Yes. thank you. Well, the book has a lot to say about remote ownership, which is my method. And remote ownership is basically being in control of your time, your location, your income and your energy. And usually on like a few of the first calls that I have with people.

Ange Dove (27:19)

Right. Yeah.

Ange Dove (27:29)

Nice.

Dina Ramadan (27:35)

I get them to rate their time, location, income and energy on a scale from one to 10 of where they are now in happiness of what they have achieved. And they can look at remote ownership in a way that goes, okay, I'm really happy with my income, but I don't have the location independence that I can go and see my bucket list of countries that I want to see.

Ange Dove (27:43)

Mm.

Dina Ramadan (28:03)

So then it's like, okay, so your income is good, but you're wearing golden handcuffs. How can we give you the same income, but give you the freedom to go and travel the world while doing something that you love, which is energy and working on your own schedule. So that's kind of like how I help people just figure out what would be, give them the ownership over their life.

Ange Dove (28:09)

Mm.

Ange Dove (28:23)

Right.

Ange Dove (28:32)

Mm.

Dina Ramadan (28:32)

because ownership of your life is what freedom really is. It's not necessarily freedom as in like rebellion, like flex. I can do whatever I want whenever I want. It's actually building a structure that you can live your life in a way that you choose to. So having the choices to enjoy life in the way that you want.

Ange Dove (28:43)

Yeah.

Ange Dove (28:57)

Yeah, that's the that's the way I define freedom is having the choice. Because that there have been times in the past where opportunities have come and I'm like, I really want to do this. I don't have the cash, right? And so that I've lost those opportunities. And it's so at that point I didn't have the choice.

Dina Ramadan(29:01)

Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (29:12)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Ange Dove (29:16)

And so to me it's freedom is the choice to be able to do what you want to do and live the way you want to live. yeah, it's not n necessarily financial freedom or, you know, whatever, but it's

Dina Ramadan (29:22)

Yeah.

Ange Dove (29:29)

It's just having the choice, is being able to make a choice. And it's like, yeah, I I even put it down to when I very first started my business, what struck me was, I can go and have lunch with my friends and spend two hours over lunch and that's okay. No one's telling me to go back to work. Right? That's choice, right? So I enjoyed that kind of thing. And just being able to when when my kids were young, just being able to go to their

Dina Ramadan (29:31)

Yeah.

Ange Dove (29:55)

like sports days and things like that that were during the day, I didn't have to take time off work 'cause, you know, I I'd only have to ask myself permission to leave.

Dina Ramadan (30:02)

No.

Dina Ramadan (30:06)

Yeah, exactly. My sister's visiting at the moment from Australia. And so she was just like, I want to do things with the family. I want to spend time with you. So then tomorrow, a week ago, I just blocked it off and I can just take a random Thursday off so I can hang out with my sister and her partner. And that's just...

life. Like don't have to ask anyone for permission. I could just do it because I want to and I can spend quality time with my family.

Ange Dove (30:45)

Nice, nice. So so what inspired the book? Then show me the book. So let's I love that. Love the design. Okay.

Dina Ramadan (30:51)

Ooh, I'll show you the book, yeah, sure. So, Escape the 9 to 5, yeah. Well, I actually got approached by someone who's in my network, not a close friend, not a close acquaintance, but she knows me through somebody else that I know. And she said, we decided to have a coffee chat online. She's based in Mexico.

Ange Dove (31:17)

Okay.

Dina Ramadan (31:17)

And we were just talking and I was just asking her about what she does and telling her about what I do. And she was just like, you should let me do a market analysis of your niche and see if anybody's writing about this. she did it. Like she did a free market analysis. And we found out that a lot of people are looking at...

books on escaping the nine to five, but there are very limited books in the market. People aren't necessarily looking for digital nomads. They're looking for how to start up a business. So instead of writing a book, how to become a digital nomad, I wrote a book on how to escape the nine to five because it was, it's, it's the key words that people are actually looking for. So it was quite a strategic move.

Ange Dove (31:52)

Mm, mm.

Hmm.

Ange Dove (32:08)

Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (32:10)

But she sold me and then I ended up working with her and she's been great to work with.

Ange Dove (32:10)

Yeah.

Ange Dove (32:15)

So she actually helped you produce the book, then put it together. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's nice design. Yeah. Lovely. Okay. So yeah.

Dina Ramadan (32:17)

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, like design it proofread it yeah, yeah. One thing I should show you actually they design this without me even asking

Ange Dove (32:31)

huh. Nice. What does it say? So it's northeast south. Okay.

Dina Ramadan (32:36)

It just says Infinito, is like the name of my business, Digital Nomad Coach.

Ange Dove (32:40)

Yeah. Okay. Nice. Nice, nice, nice. Okay. So yeah, it's nice when people do things like that where you don't ask them to do, but they just come up with it and it's you know, yeah. I have that with my VA. She's always coming up with things where I'm like, okay, I like this. Let's keep this in, right? I would never have thought about it myself. So and I think that that's a key thing as well, is getting people on your team that will give the extra value and input things that

Dina Ramadan (32:45)

Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (32:52)

Yes, the extra touch.

Dina Ramadan (33:09)

Yeah.

Ange Dove (33:10)

you know, y it's not your strength, right? So you're you're leveraging on other people's strengths as well to grow. So yeah. So so where can we send people to to order the book and to find out more about what you do?

Dina Ramadan (33:17)

Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (33:27)

Where can you send people you can you can go on my website digital nomads coach? So WWE digital nomads coach Or you could go onto Amazon type in escape the night five being around and and Yeah

Ange Dove (33:37)

Yeah.

Ange Dove (33:43)

Yeah. I love it. I love the design. I love the colours. I love everything about that. It's nice. Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (33:48)

Thank you. Yeah, I would love to hear everyone's thoughts. So if you have an email that you want to send me about anything about the book or about my website, it would be all this podcast, Dina at digital nomad.coach.

Ange Dove (34:05)

Okay. So I will put the link in the show notes under wherever you're watching this and listening to this so that you can just quickly go on and connect with Dina. So Dina, it's been, as I said, wonderful speaking with you because I think we are two kindred souls. We're doing the same things. And so it's been just a very easy conversation and I just love everything that I've heard today. And I think this is gonna give people the confidence, I think, to step out and

Dina Ramadan (34:22)

Yes! Yeah, yeah, yeah!

Ange Dove (34:34)

re examine their life and see if the next chapter of their life needs to be something different.

Dina Ramadan (34:40)

If I can do it at 24, I think anyone can do it, honestly.

Ange Dove (34:44)

Yeah. And this is the thing, is that when I set up my business, I was thirty-two, I think, when I set up mine, right? So and and I I just believe you're never too yeah, any age, you're never too young, you're never too old. It's just find something that, as you say, you you have an interest in, you have a skill in, and that you can help people, and naturally things will start to, you know, come. You just gotta have the confidence to step out and do it.

Dina Ramadan (34:52)

Yeah, exactly. You can be any age.

Dina (35:13)

And when you make your first bit of money online, when you make your first sale, your confidence just goes whoosh. It's such an amazing feeling.

Ange Dove (35:20)

Yeah.

That is true. It's like you the realization that and I heard one coach talk about this in the past where sh she was saying that her and her husband kind of went into business together and they they organized like a free event to talk to people and then they sent then they sent an offer.

Dina Ramadan (35:41)

Yeah.

Ange Dove (35:41)

And said, you know, just sign up and then they went home and they were with with their family, their in-laws and parents and whatever, and the family. And then they heard like a ding on the phone. It was their first sale, right? And they looked and saw the first sale. So they were jumping up, and it was like $500 or something like that, right? And they were jumping up and down all excited, all excited. And the the the family was like, Why, you know, it's only $500. Why are you so excited about this? And they said, No, you don't understand. If we can sell one.

Dina Ramadan (35:58)

Yeah.

Ange Dove (36:11)

We can sell thousands. Right? You know? So it's that realization if one person wants it, there's other people that want it too. So it's the validation on that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. So so Dina, thank you so much for your time today. It's been wonderful speaking to you. And as we say, everyone, links are in the show notes. So do go and check out Dina and her book as well. Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (36:13)

Yeah.

Dina Ramadan (36:20)

Personally, yeah, exactly. It's validation, it's proof, evidence.

Dina Ramadan (36:31)

No worries.

Ange Dove (36:41)

All right, thanks, Dina.

Dina Ramadan (36:43)

Bye.